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Cold water neon?

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Cold water neon?

Post by Shell on Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:47 pm

There is a person selling his tank, but has fish to get rid of his fish first...I asked about the fish, and he said he has some fish that are like a neon, but they are a cold water neon that do not require a heater?? Anyone know what he might be talking about? I asked for a description, but have not heard back yet....

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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by GaryE on Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:56 pm

The White Cloud Mountain Minnow (Tanichthys albonubes - I think) from China was sold as the "poor man's neon" into the 1970s. That's a long time back, but the name is still occasionally used.

It's a cool water fish.
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by Shell on Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:05 pm

Okay - thanks Gary, I will send an email to them with a pic of a white cloud minnow to see if that is what they have! Thanks again... Very Happy 

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-55g home to 1 angelfish, 5 kuhli loaches, & 4 zebra loaches
-36g home to 8 zoogoneticus tequila
-10g home to 2 zoogoneticus tequila
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by cephalotus on Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:50 pm

Yeah WCMM was going to be my guess too.
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by CAAIndie on Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:53 pm

Cloud minnow would be my guess too.
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by Sbenson11 on Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:38 am

a baby goldfish  Very Happy 

Steve
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by goldfishbetalover on Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:10 am

what kind of a tank is it?
what size?
I saw a 10 gallon with 3 small fish in it on kijiji
the guy said he did not know what they were
bought them at petsmart fr about $10 for all of them
I think that's what he said.....
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by Shell on Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:07 am

@goldfishbetalover wrote:what kind of a tank is it?
what size?
I saw a 10 gallon with 3 small fish in it on kijiji
the guy said he did not know what they were
bought them at petsmart fr about $10 for all of them
I think that's what he said.....  

This is a bowfront - 30g I think, with 5 'cold water neons' (which all thus far have agreed might really be white coud minnows - still have not heard back from the person though!), one betta fish, and 2 snails. They are selling the tank, but want to get rid of the fish first.

If they are white clouds, I'm considering adding them in with our 3 guppies...I *think* that might work out!!

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-220g home to 6 gold barbs, 10 denison barbs, & 2 weather loaches
-55g home to 10 black skirt tetras
-55g home to 1 angelfish, 5 kuhli loaches, & 4 zebra loaches
-36g home to 8 zoogoneticus tequila
-10g home to 2 zoogoneticus tequila
-10g home to 1 panda cory
-10g home to 1 zebra nerite, 1 onion nerite, & 1 leopard ramshorn
-3.5g home to several leopard ramshorn snails
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by Shell on Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:06 am

@Sbenson11 wrote:a baby goldfish  Very Happy 

Steve

I was going to just say "Oooh Steve..." but then I thought, hmmm, there might actually be people out there calling goldfish 'cold water neons'!! There are so many people out there who have no clue what is in their tank!!  Razz

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-55g home to 1 angelfish, 5 kuhli loaches, & 4 zebra loaches
-36g home to 8 zoogoneticus tequila
-10g home to 2 zoogoneticus tequila
-10g home to 1 panda cory
-10g home to 1 zebra nerite, 1 onion nerite, & 1 leopard ramshorn
-3.5g home to several leopard ramshorn snails
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by GaryE on Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:37 am

White clouds and guppies, with marble mollies and green swordtails, were the tanks I had when I was a kid. They work fine!
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by goldfishbetalover on Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:02 pm

mmm...if this be the case
what about the betta?
hey also I have always commented neg re people on kijiji selling tanks and fish who don't have a clue what is in their tanks....you ask them what type of fish and they respond...uh I am not sure
gee...now \i am one of them....the mystery fish!!!!! not by choice though I suppose so \i guess this makes me different...different yes indeed I am different
hee..hee...heeehoe...yes
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by Shell on Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:09 pm

Oh what smart forum buddies I have...they are indeed white clouds; he said that both he and his wife agreed that they look like the photo!

Goldfishbetalover....different? Well, no arguments here!  Razz 

We may take the betta as well - just not sure about living arrangements...he says that the betta is living quite peacefully with the white clouds at the moment.

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-220g home to 6 gold barbs, 10 denison barbs, & 2 weather loaches
-55g home to 10 black skirt tetras
-55g home to 1 angelfish, 5 kuhli loaches, & 4 zebra loaches
-36g home to 8 zoogoneticus tequila
-10g home to 2 zoogoneticus tequila
-10g home to 1 panda cory
-10g home to 1 zebra nerite, 1 onion nerite, & 1 leopard ramshorn
-3.5g home to several leopard ramshorn snails
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by goldfishbetalover on Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:43 pm

oh my gosh that would be so cool...ie if you guys could take them all including he betta and put them all together with your other guys!
if you want to keep the betta separate I have an empty solo tank here....
when will you be going to get the fishies..so excited!
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by GaryE on Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:49 pm

This is a tiny controversy - but I would keep a betta splendens with white clouds anytime. Yes, temperature is an issue, but I have kept (but not bred) B. splendens form in cool water, at 18-20 over winter, and they have remained active and healthy. If anything, their lifespan seemed considerably increased. My mother had a Betta in an unheated tank for years.
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by goldfishbetalover on Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:19 pm

I had not thought about the heating issue
these would not be my fish BUT
I understood that Bettas and guppies need heat
the white cloud minnows don't?
if your mother had a Betta for yrs without heat what is the best thing to do for them?
I am confused now!?
do you think the most impt thing for a longer life span for a Betta is filtration?
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by goldfishbetalover on Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:21 pm

gee...wondering now if I should remove the heat from the betta's all of mine live on their own in individual tanks and all of them have heated tanks!
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by GaryE on Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:34 pm

They come from very warm water and it's suggested they be kept warm. However, they have been kept in jars, etc, and have adjusted to cool water. Not having a heater is not a reason to avoid one, but they do like heat too.
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by goldfishbetalover on Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:45 pm

k....thank you
always wanting to do the best thing for my fish
I have had a few bettas over the yrs...my first when I was a student intern...not one of them had heat or filters...I did not know then!
the longest I had one was a little over 2 yrs
perhaps with filtration they would have lived longer...they had regular water changes
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by Ursus sapien on Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:27 am

@goldfishbetalover wrote:I had not thought about the heating issue
these would not be my fish BUT
I understood that Bettas and guppies need heat
the white cloud minnows don't?
My guppies, when I had them, were unheated and still bred like, well, guppies. Same with the bristlenose plecos, which spawned in 18 degree water. My endlers are in unheated tanks and you should see that colony grow!
(With thanks to Gary and Old Man back on CAC, who taught me that I was over-heating my tanks!)
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by cephalotus on Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:43 am

Gary could you elaborate more on the overheating issue? I am curious about why it would be beneficial to keep fish in water that's cooler than their natural environment. perhaps in a separate thread so we don't clutter up this one? thanks!
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by goldfishbetalover on Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:04 pm

guess I have a beautiful talent when it comes to cluttering up things!
you should see my house!
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by cephalotus on Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:39 pm

lol haha me too!!
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by Shell on Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:55 pm

@goldfishbetalover wrote:guess I have a beautiful talent when it comes to cluttering up things!
you should see my house!

@cephalotus wrote:lol haha me too!!

Well, I too can relate to this one! With all of the clutter around here, I'm not too sure where we would set up yet another tank for this betta fish, that is, if we decided to take him in and house him alone - furthermore, I have no clue how we could swing the dirt tank I've mentioned in other posts!!!   Laughing

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-220g home to 6 gold barbs, 10 denison barbs, & 2 weather loaches
-55g home to 10 black skirt tetras
-55g home to 1 angelfish, 5 kuhli loaches, & 4 zebra loaches
-36g home to 8 zoogoneticus tequila
-10g home to 2 zoogoneticus tequila
-10g home to 1 panda cory
-10g home to 1 zebra nerite, 1 onion nerite, & 1 leopard ramshorn
-3.5g home to several leopard ramshorn snails
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by GaryE on Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:20 pm

I'll clutter... aquarium lore says Betta splendens should be up around 26. The little I know of Thailand says that makes sense.
But I have noticed some Anabantoid fish, like Parosphromenus, can have very long, active and fully coloured lives at around 20.
I've also had friends reporting that in African habitats where the equatorial air is a humid 26 year round, small killies can be taken from hill streams under the forest canopy that are much cooler than the air. The sun doesn't get through the leaves and the shaded water can be cool. I recently read of a Congo forest species caught at 18c.
So what if the same thing happens in Asia? I don't know. But the fish support it well, and seem more active with the higher oxygen levels in slightly cooler water.

Here is a possible explanation - an unproven one. Fish like oxygen. They may have adaptations to swamp life, like Bettas with their inner ear evolved into a lung, but given a chance, they will prosper in clean, oxygen rich water. If they have good conditions, a temp of 20 seems fine for them. It seems a range they support extremely well, and they seem at times more active cooler. It makes sense they'd be healthier with more oxygen, and maybe temps like that are not something they wouldn't encounter in nature.
Betta splendens is a completely manipulated species by now - it is questionable whether the wild form still exists. Its habitat is our habitat, in Thai terms, as well as our houses all over the world. Those tiny bowls in stores can get pretty cool, and they support it.
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Re: Cold water neon?

Post by Biulu on Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:09 pm

People always says that a mild cold preserves so maybe this is also the case for fish...

Regarding bettas: their natural habitat consists of shallow waters which means that the temperatures of the water will fluctuate more than in deeper waters.

I know that in the tropics around 4-5 am I always need to cover myself otherwise I get very cold.

It would be interesting to measure the water temp of the betta habitats at night and compare it to the day temp.
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