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If a tree falls in the middle of a forest does anyone hear it ?

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If a tree falls in the middle of a forest does anyone hear it ?

Post by alexmtl on Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:10 pm

If a tree falls in the middle of a forest does anyone hear it ?

I know. It is an age old question and so trite. If no one is in the forest does the sound of a tree falling still make a calamity of thunder and destruction ? If you were walking through that same forest, it would be like the rolling stone scene in Indiana Jones where he barely gets out.

I have a small aquarium (all my aquariums are small but it is what goes into them that make a difference Wink ) that has been stripped down, fully cleaned and replaced with gravel, two sponge filters, and some floating plant that looks like hornwort. I have not been doing water changes since I reset the tank almost two months ago.

Oh horrors ! No water changes ! affraid affraid affraid

So does it matter that I skip the water changes?

After all, the small little snails seem to be breeding just fine. No food (no flakes, no live food) are being fed since there are no fish. The theory is that there is very little bioload in this relatively closed system (except that I do top up the water each week). Eventually I may change about a quarter of the water but until now nothing. I have not done any water testing but I have considered it. However any migration of nitrogen would be more beneficial for the hornwort, so does measuring nitrates/nitrites really matter if the plant is thriving (which it is).
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Re: If a tree falls in the middle of a forest does anyone hear it ?

Post by Sbenson11 on Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:31 am

Well I guess in theory no water changes would not be necessary for such a small bio-load. You have your own little nitrogen cycle going with the Nitrates being used by the plants. In my garden ponds I don't do water changes through the summer. I will add water if we get a dry spell, but they are far and few between. The rain does a little bit but in reality not much. The Plants and the bio-filter really do all the work.

So you are probably just fine without any water changes in balanced, low bio-load setup such as this.

Steve
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Re: If a tree falls in the middle of a forest does anyone hear it ?

Post by ksimdjembe on Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:33 am

I'd be more concerned about dissolved solids, rather than the nitrogen cycle.
Topping off water lost through evaporation adds elements and would shift the normal amounts of TDS in a tank. Eventually this coud lead to changes in osmotic potential. Basically a build up of stuff that you wouldn't want to accumulate.
Just something to consider.
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Re: If a tree falls in the middle of a forest does anyone hear it ?

Post by GaryE on Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:33 pm

I'd also wonder about the buildup of minerals, but in a plant and snail tank, there isn't a lot going on. And since testing the nitrates seems unnecessary anyway, I'd expect a tank like that to go on for a long time. It's a swamp.
The worst thing that could happen is the death of the snails, but then again, that might be the best thing.
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Re: If a tree falls in the middle of a forest does anyone hear it ?

Post by Sbenson11 on Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:39 pm

GaryE wrote:The worst thing that could happen is the death of the snails, but then again, that might be the best thing.

Smile

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Re: If a tree falls in the middle of a forest does anyone hear it ?

Post by CAAIndie on Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:40 pm

I think with a low bioload, you could definitely pull it off (at least for a good period of time). I'd like to think of it more as an exception to the rule however, I'd also be concerned about TDS popping up. Even heavily planted, I except you might still get build up of certain minerals, that could prove detrimental in the long run.

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Re: If a tree falls in the middle of a forest does anyone hear it ?

Post by alexmtl on Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:22 pm

CAAIndie wrote:I think with a low bioload, you could definitely pull it off (at least for a good period of time). I'd like to think of it more as an exception to the rule however, I'd also be concerned about TDS popping up. Even heavily planted, I except you might still get build up of certain minerals, that could prove detrimental in the long run.

Great insight into the water aspects of a tank. In general, nitrogen bioload is a result of introducing food into the ecosystem with the fish as consumers to accelerate and multiply nitrate production due to waste and decomposition. Salt accumulation through evaporation can become problematic and therefore water changes should be done to maintain proper osmolarity.

Heck, I thought I was getting a reprieve from slugging water buckets.

I have seen websites which advocate "no water changes". I do think fish can survive these extremes however, the best practice is to reduce stress and ensure as clean a water environment as possible. Extreme TDS and hardness are issues which we can effectively manage. In my view, fish kept in as close as possible to their natural water conditions are at their environmental optimum. Thanks everyone for their input.
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Re: If a tree falls in the middle of a forest does anyone hear it ?

Post by CAAIndie on Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:08 pm

alexmtl wrote:
CAAIndie wrote:I think with a low bioload, you could definitely pull it off (at least for a good period of time). I'd like to think of it more as an exception to the rule however, I'd also be concerned about TDS popping up. Even heavily planted, I except you might still get build up of certain minerals, that could prove detrimental in the long run.

Great insight into the water aspects of a tank. In general, nitrogen bioload is a result of introducing food into the ecosystem with the fish as consumers to accelerate and multiply nitrate production due to waste and decomposition. Salt accumulation through evaporation can become problematic and therefore water changes should be done to maintain proper osmolarity.

Heck, I thought I was getting a reprieve from slugging water buckets.

I have seen websites which advocate "no water changes". I do think fish can survive these extremes however, the best practice is to reduce stress and ensure as clean a water environment as possible. Extreme TDS and hardness are issues which we can effectively manage. In my view, fish kept in as close as possible to their natural water conditions are at their environmental optimum. Thanks everyone for their input.    


Thank you for an interesting topic!

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Re: If a tree falls in the middle of a forest does anyone hear it ?

Post by Biulu on Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:43 pm

I think that you have a great chance of getting some nice live food in this tank which you can then scoop up and feed to your fry and/or little fish!
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Re: If a tree falls in the middle of a forest does anyone hear it ?

Post by alexmtl on Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:36 pm

Biulu wrote:I think that you have a great chance of getting some nice live food in this tank which you can then scoop up and feed to your fry and/or little fish!

I was thinking of populating with gammarus or other prolific crustacean. After the Christmas rush I was contemplating ordering from a biologic supply house a pure strain. Not sure yet but they would be the "nymphs of the forest".
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