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Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

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Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sandman1969 on Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:02 pm

To start, I know they are dirty fish, but this seems to take the cake.

I have recently noticed my fantail seemingly eating at the poop hole of the koi that is housed with him.
Never seen this action by it before and only saw it happen about a week ago.

Is this normal?
I feed them once a day in the mornings when I get home from work.


On a side note, my female pleco that is housed in the larger tank, her eye is still sticking out farther than the other eye & it's been a week or so.
Last water change was last weekend & I also tried adding Melafix to no avail.

Should "eye" be worried? She seems to still be able to use it fine as I saw her "blink" it.

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sbenson11 on Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:18 pm

Don't worry about the goldfish,

Depending on how much you feed them at a particular feed, half the poop is probably undigested food. Koi(and Goldfsih) don't have stomachs so the more they eat at any one time the more that comes out the other end just as it went in.

He's just recycling Smile

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sandman1969 on Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:43 pm

I feed them Hikari LionHead pellets each day and a decent pinch worth.

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sbenson11 on Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:12 pm

Not sure this is an appropriate comparison, but here goes.

If for some medical reasons you were to have your stomach removed, you would have to eat small portions multiple times a day. Koi and Goldfish(possible other fish) are no different. they are only able to digest a small portion of food at a time as it passes through their system, the rest goes out the back door.

So ideally they should be fed small amounts several times a day. As a comparison, I feed my fish 3-5 times a day. I am trying to maximize their growth so I feed them when they can use the food.

It's not always possible for people to do this, so you do what you can.

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sandman1969 on Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:30 pm

They are currently in a 30 gallon tank. So I can up their feedings some.

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by GaryE on Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:19 am

I hope you're planning to get a pond? A koi in a 30 - ouch!

I think several tiny feedings a day is a good idea, but bear in mind they are constant grazers and will eat that food several times over in the course of the day. The fantail was just getting a jump on his/her favourite meal.

Never kiss a goldfish on the lips.

The inefficient digestive system is what makes goldies and koi much better pond fish than aquarium residents, as you really get caught in a rough cycle of water changing with them. You could change out 15 gallons of that tank three or four times weekly. With smaller, more frequent feedings, they will grow faster, but unless you have a plan for them in a few months, we're back to the big fish, small tank problem.

If you keep them clean, they grow properly. If they grow properly, your tank is way too small. In small tanks, they create a loop. Steve is growing his for ponds. This looks like the Bala Shark problem again.
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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sandman1969 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:28 am

We know we will have to find a home for it at some point.
I assume fantails don't get big? He's been the same size for the last 3 years, give or take.
He was a pond fish and he's the only one left out of 15 that we "inherited" after moving into a townhouse a few years back. 5 died and the rest found new homes.

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by GaryE on Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:58 am

I just did a quick google on that - and it depends on his/her genetics. A purebred one is supposed to max at 6 inches, but if there is comet in it (common fantails are often crosses) they can reach 15. Shubunkins run at 11, which is what I saw in the pond ones I inherited at the school. From perusing a couple of first page google hits, they should generally run at 8-10 inches.

Bear in mind they are heavy fish, so the one inch per gallon foolishness doesn't even come close. An inch of fantail beside an inch of danio is twenty times the bulk.
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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sandman1969 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:38 am

I'll try & post a pic, if I can.



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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sbenson11 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:02 am

Your fantail defiantly has some comet in him, a lot actually.

For a domestic Koi that's not a bad looking Kohaku. If he were to get out in a pond for the summer that orange would turn a much better red. One thing I will mention about the Koi is his body shape. Koi that were raised in plenty of space have a nice smooth line from the tip of there nose, up over there back and down to the base of their tail. A koi that has been raised in less then ideal space tends to be stunted and have a less then ideal lines. While it doesn't look bad yet it is starting. I know this because I have a couple just like it. They were raised in small tanks and once they get stunted they never grow out of it.

I don't want to sound so negative, just want to make sure you have all the information you need to make the right decisions about their future.

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by GaryE on Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:58 am

Those are healthy, vibrant looking fish.

When I bought my first 33 gallon tank, I thought it was enormous. It took space and resources in the house, cost a fair bit and was a focal point in the room. I kick myself still for what I had in it - too many fish.

30s are still a good size, but hard experience means I first look up the maximum size of a fish before I take it in, and only take it if I feel I can provide 8-10 inches of tank for each inch the fish grows to. I always start with the maximum, so that a fish that is in the store at 2 inches but grows to 7 inches would need a six foot tank, or nothing. It has to go into a tank that will still be appropriate when it has grown out, as that come pretty quickly. You koi will reach half size at 2, but can live past 30.
With delicate fish like my beloved Geophagus or Satanoperca, I calculate 25 gallons per adult in my 6 foot 125 gallon. Sadly, I decided I couldn't keep those fish anymore because I lacked room.
Goldfish and Koi can be tough, because they do tolerate crowding better than most fish, but if you care for them, they will always outgrow the tank. Then you have a fish you really like that you can't keep anymore, and that's discouraging. They can be hard to find homes for - Oscars, big hobby "sharks", pacus, common plecos, koi, goldfish - we all make the same mistake once with them, and realize there are a lot of people in the same boat also trying to give them away. They are cute when little, but not often welcomed when they grow.
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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by l_l_l on Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:37 pm

I had Koi as well in my tank and loved them to death.
I unfortunately had to give them as I realized that they grow VERY fast.
This is classic beginner mistake.

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sandman1969 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:12 pm

The reason we got the koi was because the goldfish needed a friend and there weren't any goldfish his size at the LFSes here. Hence we got the koi.

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by l_l_l on Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:13 pm

Not trying to be rude, just commenting..
What do you plan to do once he gets too big?

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sandman1969 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:49 pm

We will have to find him a home as our plan of getting a larger tank isn't in the financial cards right now.

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sbenson11 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:49 pm

I'm sure they will be fine for now, they look good and healthy.

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sandman1969 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:55 am

Well, it turns out that we won't be looking for a new home. My GF is waiting to see about a "promotion" and if she gets it, we get a new place & look for a 500 gallon tank for the sharks and then use the exiting 130 gallon for these 2.

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sbenson11 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:57 am

500GL?

Now were talking

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sandman1969 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:31 pm

I'm not lookin forward to water changes with that thing.

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sbenson11 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:13 pm

@Sandman1969 wrote:I'm not lookin forward to water changes with that thing.

The key is to make it as simple as possible to do, your more likely to do it on time that way. I have an 800Gal system that I do 50gal water changes every two days. It's just a mater of closing one valve and open another, let the 50gal drain out and pump in 50gal back in to replace it.

Just keep it as simple and easy as possible.

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sandman1969 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:43 pm

Ok, to get this right...you have a line always connected to a water tap?
What about cleaning the gravel?

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sbenson11 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:22 pm

No we have Chloramines in our water so I have to treat it first. I have a 50gal barrel that I put the Prime in and fill with a hose. I just plug in a sump pump and the water gets pumped back in to refill the system.

Most of my tanks are more or less holding tanks and are not really decorative and don't have gravel in them.

This particular system has external filters, so I am draining the 50G of water out of the vortex filter and then replacing it. I'm sure you could rig up something for your application. This 500G tank your talking about will that be glass?

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sandman1969 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:45 pm

I haven't given that much thought into it as of yet. Glass or acrylic. But which is better?


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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sbenson11 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:10 pm

if this is going to be a DIY project you have a number of options,

first you going to need to decide where it's going and how aesthetically pleasing it needs to be. If you just looking for a tank to hold the goldfish and Koi you don't need to be as particular.

You could go all glass which would be really expensive. You can rough up your dimensions and put them through one of the online glass calculators to see how thick it needs to be. then call a local glass company to get a price. Just make sure you sitting down first.

Acrylic would be a little cheaper and can be pretty easy to work with. Get the pieces pre-cut for you, glue it together and your done.

a hybrid of plywood and glass or acrylic can also be a more cost effective option. I am working one one like that now. (if i ever get the time to finish it that is).

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Re: Question regarding actions of my fantail gold fish

Post by Sandman1969 on Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:10 am

That's why we're waiting til we get a house before we get a bigger tank.

What do you mean by hybrid of plywood & say acrylic?

The 500g tank would actually be for the ID sharks and their current 130g tank would then house the goldfish/koi.

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